nuckinfutz
May 7, 11:32 AM
OK, I'll grant you that MobileMe doesn't suck as much as I make it sound. I just don't like it and so I don't use it anymore. Fair enough.
But, I think you misunderstand how Google's ads work. They aren't indexing and storing your emails in some data bank to sell off to ad companies. They do simple pattern matching on the text in your email to figure out which ads are most relevant and then displays those to you. The ad companies don't have access to your emails and can't read them, etc. I'm not being capitalized. If I don't want the ads I can pay $50 / year, or I can take the ads for free. That's just business, I enter into that in full agreement. And I trust Google just as much (if not more) than some random schmo ISP that would give me shoddy email service and just as much privacy as Google does but without the ads.
Point taken but what kind of FOOL am I to trade my privacy to Google for a paltry $6 at any level?
Where you go, who you speak to and how you communicate is of tremendous value and I recommend that people think about actual value. We're moving from this era where the expectation should be that Cloud services at a basic level should be incorporated into the product without the vendor resorting to advertisements.
Google and Facebook have both come out with disturbing revelations about how they feel about consumer privacy. I think the beauty of the web is that no company is irreplaceable. I could continue to get email, online calendar, pictures, documents and more without Google and that's a great feeling.
But, I think you misunderstand how Google's ads work. They aren't indexing and storing your emails in some data bank to sell off to ad companies. They do simple pattern matching on the text in your email to figure out which ads are most relevant and then displays those to you. The ad companies don't have access to your emails and can't read them, etc. I'm not being capitalized. If I don't want the ads I can pay $50 / year, or I can take the ads for free. That's just business, I enter into that in full agreement. And I trust Google just as much (if not more) than some random schmo ISP that would give me shoddy email service and just as much privacy as Google does but without the ads.
Point taken but what kind of FOOL am I to trade my privacy to Google for a paltry $6 at any level?
Where you go, who you speak to and how you communicate is of tremendous value and I recommend that people think about actual value. We're moving from this era where the expectation should be that Cloud services at a basic level should be incorporated into the product without the vendor resorting to advertisements.
Google and Facebook have both come out with disturbing revelations about how they feel about consumer privacy. I think the beauty of the web is that no company is irreplaceable. I could continue to get email, online calendar, pictures, documents and more without Google and that's a great feeling.
PecanEater
Apr 5, 01:03 PM
Lame. You can be sure Toyota will capitulate to the Apple strong arm.
kingtj
Mar 28, 10:02 AM
Apple has been repeatedly bashed for focusing too much on iOS devices, to the detriment of their core computer product line. (They took people off of working on OS X to finish fixing things on the iPad, etc. etc.)
Now, it sounds like they're trying to bring the focus back to the Mac again for a little while, and people are complaining??
Why would you feel a need to get a new cellphone every single year? Contracts tend to run 2 years, discouraging you from upgrading that often anyway. But regardless, all of the recent "smartphones" I've seen are built well enough so they'll easily hold up for a good 2 years of use. All of the things I'd really need to do on a mobile phone will work fine next year, just the way they work this year. Even if you're just hung up on having "the latest thing"? If Apple delays release of the iPhone 5, then the 4 remains the "latest thing" from them for a while longer.
More to the point of the original topic though? I can definitely see why this WWDC would be a critical one, in many ways, to talk about a lot of software changes! Apparently, the Linux community is rapidly switching over their software to the "GPL3" license, which has a lot of "gotchas" in it that try to restrict what commercial businesses can do with the code. Essentially, they're trying to keep companies like Apple from benefiting from their free, open-source projects, and keep them for Linux users instead. The Apache web server is moving to a GPL3 license, for example, as is the gcc compiler and Samba.
Apple has to start moving to alternate products for all of this core functionality and get developers up to speed on the changes, or we're in for a LOT of reduced functionality in future OS X versions.
That's just getting complacent in my opinion, people like myself like changing phones yearly, no new iPhone means no return business, I'll try something else instead, bad move if true.
Now, it sounds like they're trying to bring the focus back to the Mac again for a little while, and people are complaining??
Why would you feel a need to get a new cellphone every single year? Contracts tend to run 2 years, discouraging you from upgrading that often anyway. But regardless, all of the recent "smartphones" I've seen are built well enough so they'll easily hold up for a good 2 years of use. All of the things I'd really need to do on a mobile phone will work fine next year, just the way they work this year. Even if you're just hung up on having "the latest thing"? If Apple delays release of the iPhone 5, then the 4 remains the "latest thing" from them for a while longer.
More to the point of the original topic though? I can definitely see why this WWDC would be a critical one, in many ways, to talk about a lot of software changes! Apparently, the Linux community is rapidly switching over their software to the "GPL3" license, which has a lot of "gotchas" in it that try to restrict what commercial businesses can do with the code. Essentially, they're trying to keep companies like Apple from benefiting from their free, open-source projects, and keep them for Linux users instead. The Apache web server is moving to a GPL3 license, for example, as is the gcc compiler and Samba.
Apple has to start moving to alternate products for all of this core functionality and get developers up to speed on the changes, or we're in for a LOT of reduced functionality in future OS X versions.
That's just getting complacent in my opinion, people like myself like changing phones yearly, no new iPhone means no return business, I'll try something else instead, bad move if true.
ddrueckhammer
Jul 30, 01:22 PM
To those who just want a phone that works. If this iPod Phone doesn't work out, I would recommend the new Nokia 6103 (T-mobile) or its Cingular equivalant in the US. It has superb call quality compared to all the other phones I have had including RAZRs. It does have other features like Bluetooth, Speakerphone, Camera, mp3 ringers etc, but the main point is that it is a durable phone that can make a receive calls at very good quality. The other features are bonuses. I don't know why Nokia has the best call quality, (at least on T-mobile and Cingular in my area) but in my experience this is no myth.
kalsta
May 3, 09:41 PM
No, once again, it's not about comfort; it's about experience. I learned mostly SI units when I was in college, I'm quite comfortable with using those units - but the industry doesn't use those units. I learned, and became an expert in, the units used by the industry. You would ask millions of engineers, technicians, etc. to throw away years or even decades of experience simply to change a system that isn't broken.
Yes, it's a system that has its roots in the past, but the system still works. There's no compelling reason to change it. There's no efficiency to be gained.
When the Mac first came out, with it's GUI and mouse, it wasn't a runaway success, although to those in the know it was vastly superior to PCs running DOS. The arguments for staying with DOS were no doubt similar to yours… 'I spent years becoming an expert in DOS. I am comfortable with it. It works just fine. There is no need to change. Besides, it would be too costly to change.'
When you say there is 'no compelling reason to change', you're ignoring all the point already made. Base-10. Derived units. Consistent prefixes. This makes for much simpler calculations and formula in practice. It might be harder for an old fella like you to have to relearn things, but for the next generation of children learning from scratch, the metric system simplifies things so much. Not only that, but the USA is increasingly out of step with the rest of the world in this regard. So not only is this generation of Americans making it more difficult for future generations of Americans, but it's really complicating things for everyone in this age of global communication.
Okay, imagine for a moment that one of the US states wasn't using the decimal system for counting. Instead, they had a system where letters were used to designate certain amounts, similar to Roman numerals, but instead of having a base of 10, it varied. So perhaps A is equal to 12. Then three As is equal to B. Two Bs is equal to C. 22 Bs is equal to a D, and so on with this kind of inconsistency. You have a friend living in this state who claims that the system works just fine — he spent many years studying this system and even more using it in his line of work and can't see why he or anyone else in the state should have to learn this dangfangled decimal system. What would you say to your friend?
Yes, it's a system that has its roots in the past, but the system still works. There's no compelling reason to change it. There's no efficiency to be gained.
When the Mac first came out, with it's GUI and mouse, it wasn't a runaway success, although to those in the know it was vastly superior to PCs running DOS. The arguments for staying with DOS were no doubt similar to yours… 'I spent years becoming an expert in DOS. I am comfortable with it. It works just fine. There is no need to change. Besides, it would be too costly to change.'
When you say there is 'no compelling reason to change', you're ignoring all the point already made. Base-10. Derived units. Consistent prefixes. This makes for much simpler calculations and formula in practice. It might be harder for an old fella like you to have to relearn things, but for the next generation of children learning from scratch, the metric system simplifies things so much. Not only that, but the USA is increasingly out of step with the rest of the world in this regard. So not only is this generation of Americans making it more difficult for future generations of Americans, but it's really complicating things for everyone in this age of global communication.
Okay, imagine for a moment that one of the US states wasn't using the decimal system for counting. Instead, they had a system where letters were used to designate certain amounts, similar to Roman numerals, but instead of having a base of 10, it varied. So perhaps A is equal to 12. Then three As is equal to B. Two Bs is equal to C. 22 Bs is equal to a D, and so on with this kind of inconsistency. You have a friend living in this state who claims that the system works just fine — he spent many years studying this system and even more using it in his line of work and can't see why he or anyone else in the state should have to learn this dangfangled decimal system. What would you say to your friend?
aptar
Sep 16, 07:25 PM
Ok people, how's this? I ordered a 17" MBP on Sep 8. I upgraded the ram and hard drive. It was supposed to ship yesterday, the 15th.
I checked my order status today and the ship date has changed to October 2! I also received an e-mail from Apple stating that there were unexpected delays.
I held out hoping for a C2D but broke down and bought on the 8th. I was all excited that it was going to ship yesterday. I don't even care so much about a C2D, I just want my Mac. But here's hoping anyway.
Just wanted to add, for everyone reading a lot into shipping dates etc., I ordered mine on Sep 11 and got the notice of delays, then notice it was shpped out today (was planning on cancelling after this news).
Now, it will probably be around the 25th before I get, and I won't open it, but considering I have upgrades (so customization = no return) how hard do you guys think it would be for me to exchange it for an updated one?
I checked my order status today and the ship date has changed to October 2! I also received an e-mail from Apple stating that there were unexpected delays.
I held out hoping for a C2D but broke down and bought on the 8th. I was all excited that it was going to ship yesterday. I don't even care so much about a C2D, I just want my Mac. But here's hoping anyway.
Just wanted to add, for everyone reading a lot into shipping dates etc., I ordered mine on Sep 11 and got the notice of delays, then notice it was shpped out today (was planning on cancelling after this news).
Now, it will probably be around the 25th before I get, and I won't open it, but considering I have upgrades (so customization = no return) how hard do you guys think it would be for me to exchange it for an updated one?
SandynJosh
Nov 26, 04:29 PM
The real influence the cellphone companies (at least, the ones not stuck in the 1980s as far as their network infrastructure goes) have on phone purchasing is the ability to subsidize phones that fit their model.
The fact Apple can't expect carriers to subsidize their phones is one issue they have to deal with.
NEWS:
November 23, 2006 CNN
NEW YORK (AP) -- Cell phone owners will be allowed to break software locks on their handsets in order to use them with competing carriers under new copyright rules announced Wednesday.
Given the above news, NO cellphone company may soon be subsidizing ANY phones.
The fact Apple can't expect carriers to subsidize their phones is one issue they have to deal with.
NEWS:
November 23, 2006 CNN
NEW YORK (AP) -- Cell phone owners will be allowed to break software locks on their handsets in order to use them with competing carriers under new copyright rules announced Wednesday.
Given the above news, NO cellphone company may soon be subsidizing ANY phones.
Frogurt
Sep 16, 12:53 PM
They released the C2D iMACS altogether. I would be really surprised if they didn't do AT LEAST the same to their pro line-ups.
Except that Apple has typically released only the 15 inch model before later introducing the 17 (and 12 when they existed) when they do major updates. Witness the introduction of the Al case and the Intel switch. Of course it matters whether this is a major update. If, like the iMacs, there is not a major case redesign and it is just a processor bump then expect them to be released simultaneously. But if there is a change in case, I would be surprised (pleasantly though) if the 17 came out at the same time.
Except that Apple has typically released only the 15 inch model before later introducing the 17 (and 12 when they existed) when they do major updates. Witness the introduction of the Al case and the Intel switch. Of course it matters whether this is a major update. If, like the iMacs, there is not a major case redesign and it is just a processor bump then expect them to be released simultaneously. But if there is a change in case, I would be surprised (pleasantly though) if the 17 came out at the same time.
chugg
Apr 18, 03:23 PM
Yay go Apple. From the little guy everyone cheered for to the ... big guy that sues everyone and still has everyone cheering for.
aswitcher
Jul 30, 06:07 AM
So hope the iPhone happens.
DeaconGraves
May 4, 05:47 PM
0% Operating Systems in the app store, yet somehow you know exactly how their going to change their politicly on both app store sales and general OS sales, while no one else has any hint that they're be any changes at all.
what else can you see in that crystal ball of yours?
Thank you for making my point for me. Last time I checked you were the one making predictions that Lion was going to be handled in the store exactly like every other app.
All I am saying is that there is no proof to point either way at the moment. But coming to a conclusion that Lion is going to be handled like every other app is like concluding that the iPhone SDK, when released, was going to be exactly like "web apps" were previously.
what else can you see in that crystal ball of yours?
Thank you for making my point for me. Last time I checked you were the one making predictions that Lion was going to be handled in the store exactly like every other app.
All I am saying is that there is no proof to point either way at the moment. But coming to a conclusion that Lion is going to be handled like every other app is like concluding that the iPhone SDK, when released, was going to be exactly like "web apps" were previously.
Clive At Five
Nov 22, 02:44 PM
You break my heart. Something tells me that this won't be the phone for me. I would put money on it having the one thing I don't want - a camera. I don't want it, I don't need it, and it's a pain to have one.
Although, I was thinking that there would be just a couple of BTO options - maybe a camera and BT - not an entire gamut of BTO possabilities. I agree that too many would be expensive (and the firmware would end up too complicated).
I think I would sold on a camera if and only if it takes >3MP shots & syncs w/ iPhoto... and the phone costs less than $300. :-P
-Clive
Although, I was thinking that there would be just a couple of BTO options - maybe a camera and BT - not an entire gamut of BTO possabilities. I agree that too many would be expensive (and the firmware would end up too complicated).
I think I would sold on a camera if and only if it takes >3MP shots & syncs w/ iPhoto... and the phone costs less than $300. :-P
-Clive
MacFly123
Mar 30, 04:06 AM
No offense taken, but seriously how is the web interface to my digital locker so offensive?
screenshot (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5571848363_7544628f92_b.jpg).
Not that I'd normally be accessing my media via a desktop website. That's why Amazon also offer a nice and visually friendly (https://ssl.gstatic.com/android/market/com.amazon.mp3/ss-1-320-480-160-2-251c9c92d6a55c8108001da1d17520acb8db9c80) app for your mobile devices :).
I'm not going to give a full critique to Amazon's UI and UX design, but when you look at Apple's UIs and Apple's apps next to these Amazon one's do you not notice a major difference in simplicity, fit and finish, and polish???
I'm not saying you can't use the Amazon stuff, but Apple has powerfully demonstrated many times over now for years, that user experience and beautiful design ABSOLUTELY DOES make a big impact!
Take a look at the UI of iBooks, or the new iMovie and Garage Band, or Contacts, or all of the iWork apps on iPad, etc. etc. BEAUTIFUL UIs and very creative, cultural, simplistic and elegant! Also WebOS has some beautiful UI design.
screenshot (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5571848363_7544628f92_b.jpg).
Not that I'd normally be accessing my media via a desktop website. That's why Amazon also offer a nice and visually friendly (https://ssl.gstatic.com/android/market/com.amazon.mp3/ss-1-320-480-160-2-251c9c92d6a55c8108001da1d17520acb8db9c80) app for your mobile devices :).
I'm not going to give a full critique to Amazon's UI and UX design, but when you look at Apple's UIs and Apple's apps next to these Amazon one's do you not notice a major difference in simplicity, fit and finish, and polish???
I'm not saying you can't use the Amazon stuff, but Apple has powerfully demonstrated many times over now for years, that user experience and beautiful design ABSOLUTELY DOES make a big impact!
Take a look at the UI of iBooks, or the new iMovie and Garage Band, or Contacts, or all of the iWork apps on iPad, etc. etc. BEAUTIFUL UIs and very creative, cultural, simplistic and elegant! Also WebOS has some beautiful UI design.
EricNau
May 3, 02:04 AM
I have to ask you, aside from base 10, what makes metric superior?
If it is to have an easier time with conversions and what not, then why would I leave a system that I am very familiar with, even if it is not base 10?
I don't believe one system is better than the other. They are just different.
That's sort of like asking, "aside from saving lives, what makes vaccines so great?" Base-10 is exactly what makes metric superior. Having a system of units based entirely on decimals is extremely powerful. You can convert between units simply by moving a decimal point, express very small/large numbers in scientific notation, and clearly see the greater of two numbers with precision clearly expressed.
For example, which is greater? 5/16 or 7/18
And if I've measured a golfball to be 42/25 inches in diameter, what is the precision of my measurement? Expressed as decimals, I know that a golfball measured at 42.67mm is precise to the nearest hundredth of a millimeter.
Now, of course you can express inches, feet, yards, etc. in decimal notation, but then you can't convert them without a calculator. If I tell you that a golfball has a diameter of 0.14 feet, how many inches is that? (Turns out to be 1.68.)
Besides, let's not forget that the metric system has popularity on it's side. Costly mistakes are made every year because units weren't converted between metric and customary correctly.
If it is to have an easier time with conversions and what not, then why would I leave a system that I am very familiar with, even if it is not base 10?
I don't believe one system is better than the other. They are just different.
That's sort of like asking, "aside from saving lives, what makes vaccines so great?" Base-10 is exactly what makes metric superior. Having a system of units based entirely on decimals is extremely powerful. You can convert between units simply by moving a decimal point, express very small/large numbers in scientific notation, and clearly see the greater of two numbers with precision clearly expressed.
For example, which is greater? 5/16 or 7/18
And if I've measured a golfball to be 42/25 inches in diameter, what is the precision of my measurement? Expressed as decimals, I know that a golfball measured at 42.67mm is precise to the nearest hundredth of a millimeter.
Now, of course you can express inches, feet, yards, etc. in decimal notation, but then you can't convert them without a calculator. If I tell you that a golfball has a diameter of 0.14 feet, how many inches is that? (Turns out to be 1.68.)
Besides, let's not forget that the metric system has popularity on it's side. Costly mistakes are made every year because units weren't converted between metric and customary correctly.
-aggie-
May 4, 05:28 AM
DP is fine for a leader....for this first round. I'm not too sure about this splitting up though.
seenew
Aug 3, 11:34 PM
Man, and I got an iMac in late June because I was told they wouldn't get Merom's into iMacs until 2007.
:(
I can still drop one in, can't I?
:(
I can still drop one in, can't I?
JAT
Apr 25, 11:24 AM
Well, I think it's great - I have just been able to track business mileage accurately, even when I have lost the exact date and route - I also can retrace my steps from that holiday 8 months ago where I went to a really nice place and forgot the name of it.
Neither of those uses is supported by the information in question.
Neither of those uses is supported by the information in question.
iphone3gss
May 6, 12:14 AM
I can't think of a worse idea!
derbothaus
Apr 27, 10:21 PM
I think the iMac will take care of gamers and builders.. the mac pro is NOT a gaming device, it is a high class workstation that is designed for use with using and manipulating multi-threaded pro and audio apps.
Yeah but it is the fastest "gaming" device Apple sells so...
The stock 5770 is faster than the iMac 27". The iMac has always had pathetic graphics. It is never paired with a card that can actually play a game in the res native to the screen your playing on. You always have to down res to get any AA or heavy shadows. This is unacceptable for any respectable gamer. I play on a smaller screen specifically because I want everything dot to dot. The graphics chip is soldered to the motherboard, also not ever going to be cool.
On the Mac side my Pro functions as a fancy pants Xeon workstation and on the Win side it performs as a Core i7 980x and 5870 should perform and that is a damn respectable gaming rig. The less capable machine is never seen as ok for gaming. For me to think of iMac 27" they'd have to ship it with at least a 5870 if not a 6970 to ever hope to get 2560x1440 res in game. The heat alone would melt that case in a couple months:)
Yeah but it is the fastest "gaming" device Apple sells so...
The stock 5770 is faster than the iMac 27". The iMac has always had pathetic graphics. It is never paired with a card that can actually play a game in the res native to the screen your playing on. You always have to down res to get any AA or heavy shadows. This is unacceptable for any respectable gamer. I play on a smaller screen specifically because I want everything dot to dot. The graphics chip is soldered to the motherboard, also not ever going to be cool.
On the Mac side my Pro functions as a fancy pants Xeon workstation and on the Win side it performs as a Core i7 980x and 5870 should perform and that is a damn respectable gaming rig. The less capable machine is never seen as ok for gaming. For me to think of iMac 27" they'd have to ship it with at least a 5870 if not a 6970 to ever hope to get 2560x1440 res in game. The heat alone would melt that case in a couple months:)
beniscool
Apr 5, 04:25 PM
I like to think of this like this:
You(apple) mow your lawn nice and neat and your heading inside when your neighbor(Toyota) starts mowing his lawn and the dead grass sprays on you nice lawn so you go and ask him if he would stop spraying grass on his lawn and as the neighbor are you going to no to him and continue spraying grass on his lawn probably not because then you(apple) and your neighbor(Toyota) then have hard feeling.You may sound like the bad guy but you don't want dead grass on your lawn. And if he did say no the his lawnmower(car) need some gas(iPod connectivity) your not going to want to give it to him.
I think of it like that
You(apple) mow your lawn nice and neat and your heading inside when your neighbor(Toyota) starts mowing his lawn and the dead grass sprays on you nice lawn so you go and ask him if he would stop spraying grass on his lawn and as the neighbor are you going to no to him and continue spraying grass on his lawn probably not because then you(apple) and your neighbor(Toyota) then have hard feeling.You may sound like the bad guy but you don't want dead grass on your lawn. And if he did say no the his lawnmower(car) need some gas(iPod connectivity) your not going to want to give it to him.
I think of it like that
RichP
Aug 7, 08:55 PM
So..I have one on order too, not sure if I am all that excited, which sounds ridiculous. Ive been holding out replacing my 1.8G5 for a while, and my plan was to get a cheapo quad g5 once these things came out, but the 2.66 quad is pretty damn cheap compared to what the old quad was. Hell, ebay wont have deals on used G5 quads that are worth the "used" risk for ages now.
About the RAM, I ordered mine with the Radeon card, which will postpone my order some. By then, someone will have one of these machines, and figure out what the deal is with the RAM heatsinks so I can order more..i hope :o
edit: dont forget, you get a free nano with edu purchase!
About the RAM, I ordered mine with the Radeon card, which will postpone my order some. By then, someone will have one of these machines, and figure out what the deal is with the RAM heatsinks so I can order more..i hope :o
edit: dont forget, you get a free nano with edu purchase!
Turbojugend27
Aug 2, 12:28 PM
Meh to the Mac Cinema displays, just buy an LG (since they make them for Apple) it will be 500 dollars cheaper and have more features on it. I hope they put the new chips into the Imacs, I need a new one ASAP.
notjustjay
Apr 7, 11:21 AM
I can't believe the number of positive votes and gloaters we have in here. Aren't you the same people who are outraged because you can't get your iPad 2 because the scalpers bought them all up?
Look, if Apple dominates the tablet market because the iPad is genuinely better than the other guy's tablet (and don't get me wrong, I think it is) and that causes Apple's sales to far eclipse everyone else, then GREAT! People vote with their wallets and the dominant winner is clear. But if Apple becomes the dominant player because, heck, they're so big that they can simply BUY THEIR WAY to the top, then that's not really fair for anybody, is it?
Isn't that how Windows got their market share? Because Microsoft got so big that they could start dictating deals to the PC makers? Didn't we bash them for "forcing" Windows on consumers, not giving them a fair choice?
Look, if Apple dominates the tablet market because the iPad is genuinely better than the other guy's tablet (and don't get me wrong, I think it is) and that causes Apple's sales to far eclipse everyone else, then GREAT! People vote with their wallets and the dominant winner is clear. But if Apple becomes the dominant player because, heck, they're so big that they can simply BUY THEIR WAY to the top, then that's not really fair for anybody, is it?
Isn't that how Windows got their market share? Because Microsoft got so big that they could start dictating deals to the PC makers? Didn't we bash them for "forcing" Windows on consumers, not giving them a fair choice?
solvs
Jul 21, 05:57 PM
(iMac is a little too "white" for my taste)
Racist. :p
Kidding. I'm think they'll go with a high end black model eventually. Maybe give it a better video card or something to justify another hundred bucks or so. I'm hoping they do the same with the MacBooks. Maybe a new lowend pro, or a high end nonpro with a built-in video card. That would justify a $1500 purchase over a $1000 one to me.
Racist. :p
Kidding. I'm think they'll go with a high end black model eventually. Maybe give it a better video card or something to justify another hundred bucks or so. I'm hoping they do the same with the MacBooks. Maybe a new lowend pro, or a high end nonpro with a built-in video card. That would justify a $1500 purchase over a $1000 one to me.